odycee | (no subject)

For some insane reason, last night I sat through the whole of that film 'Kate and Leopold'. I felt like scrubbing my brain clean with a brillo pad afterwards. I was bored and I thought getting to look at Hugh Jackman for an hour and a half might redeem it. No.

On a different note, I've been thinking about the whole 'Willow getting away with torture and murder lightly' thing and was wondering what Andrew's feelings on the whole sorry matter were. We don't really get much interaction between Andrew and Willow in season 7 and I think that was a shame.

We know that despite everything, Andrew in S7 still has strong feelings for Warren, so surely Andrew would at least be a little bit miffed at his murderer. He makes a big deal about his own redemption so what does he think of Willow's? Perhaps Andrew being Andrew might believe that Willow has a get out of jail free card on account of her being one of the Scoobies but still, there has to be some resentment there. I don't think I'd enjoy living in the same house as the person that killed my lover.

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I think there was but Andrew being Andrew I don't think he would of come straight out and said it. I think he probably is still a little scared of Willow. There was one scene that made me think for a second he was going to say something. The one bit (can't remember the episode,being thick tonight) when he grabs a snake skin and says something like 'a snake shedding its skin'.I really though that would of been a good time for the writers to give us something on Andrews thoughts. All we get is in never leave me when he says 'And you got your revenge. You killed my best friend. We're even.' and thats it no more about that fact, grrrr.The fact he is willing to follow First Warren and is so happy when he thinks he's back in 'killer in me' shows how much he cared and missed him. So why the writers never showed his grief I'll never know.

Yeah, that was in Potential. I think that was one of the only times that Andrew and Willow speak apart from when she captures him in Never Leave Me.

I think he probably is still a little scared of Willow.

I know I would be ;) It just seems a shame that the matter was never touched on again. I guess they didn't want to keep reminding us about Willow's murderingness.

In canon, there's nothing shown about how Andrew feels. So how about in fanfic land? Has anyone ever written anything about it? Just curious.

Yeah, exactly, I kept an eye out for that, and the only thing I can remember is when Andrew says something like 'confidentially a lot of Buffy's crew are murderers'. I can't quite recall, but I have a vague impression of another time. (I really need the DVDs).

As for fanfic - there should be some as you say - why isn't there?

The Buffy writers, I get the impression, really didn't want to deal with Willow having killed Andrew's lover. (I'm still feeling ranty about them making it quite clear Andrew did love Warren, but not having the uh midiclorians to actually come out and say it, let alone show it).

All good points. The writers nearly had guts with that relatioship, but not quite. I'm sure they'd claim that they wanted to hint, that that is more fun, but I think it's lack of courage. They had no problems showing Willow and Tara naked and shagging.

Had they shown Warren and Andrew closer, then they would have had to deal with Andrew's grief more fully. Or, indeed, at all.

It breaks my hears in The Killer In Me when he thinks Warren is back for real. And the writers made a boob joke out of it.

They really sucked with the whole Warren/Andrew thing, didn't they?

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Okay, you're entirely correct. I shouldn't have said "shagging." But they were naked in... Seeing Red, I think?

I have to say, that divide between male and female on tv really bothers me, though. I am very impressed at Joss that he was willing to resign for the Willow/Tara relationship. I know, I guess, that it's not entirely the writers' fault that Warren/Andrew was never made explicit. But it still bothers me - the networks, the public, whoever we can blame. It bothers me. I know the reasons why, I guess, but it still bothers me.

Anyway. Yes. Chastened in my rant. ^_^

Though just a question - how much sex was there on Buffy before it moved to UPN? I mean, shown, not implied. I can think of - Buffy/Angel, Buffy/Parker?? I can't remember. Buffy/Riley.

That's all I can remember.

And on UPN before late season 7, all I can think of is Buffy/Spike... so I guess not seeing Willow/Tara, or any other sex, isn't that unusual, given the tone of the show.

I might very well be rambling here, lol!

Night. :)

and was wondering what Andrew's feelings on the whole sorry matter were.
Most likely that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

I don't think I'd enjoy living in the same house as the person that killed my lover.
As much as I like W/A it's not canon. The show couldn't deal with that aspect because the W/A relationship exists on a totally subtextual level. You and I may see it as being canon, but it's not actual it happened on the show and it should have been dealt with canon. Yes it does suck that the show never dealt with Willow's guilt over Warren's murder. The scooby double standard at play. However Warren did kill Tara and almost killed Buffy, his hands weren't clean.

As far as ME not being "brave enough" to tackle the complexities of Andrew/Warren gay male ships, vs Willow/Tara and Willow/Kennedy. Willow is a core cast memeber her relationships are important. Andrew and Warren were villains, reaccuring villains but villains none the less. In season six and seven the show was drowning beneath the various character threads, there wasn't enough time to go through the complexities of Warren and Andrew. Not only that but again, W/A is a fanon ship. It's fanon they were shagging.

Most likely that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Definitely! I'm sure that's the reason he never said anything what with him being a stabby murderer and all as well, I just wondered in an out loud pondery kind of way what he was thinking.

As much as I like W/A it's not canon. The show couldn't deal with that aspect because the W/A relationship exists on a totally subtextual level.

Totally. It can be taken as canon that Andrew followed Warren fanatically but not much more than that.

However Warren did kill Tara and almost killed Buffy, his hands weren't clean.

Not forgetting Katrina! I don't think you'd get many contradicting you there. Warren is not a nice chap.

As far as ME not being "brave enough" to tackle the complexities of Andrew/Warren gay male ships

And that's a whole different can of worms! As you say, too many characters, not enough time.